Rant++

[arpad]

Burg got his minute of fame in New Yorker. Funny, but his story makes me not gloomy, but optimistic. In a way.

Israelis are stretched between family, army and multitude of jobs. Rift between orthodox and secular society, rifts between Jewish communities, Arab minority, outside enemies, tax burden, crisis of elite, corruption, et cetera. Makes one feel awful.

But when I read all that fuss about Burg - I understand that outside world don't know a thing about real Israel. Holocaust-obsessed, militaristic and xenophobic - that's the line that Burg is selling there.

Those who listen to him can't grasp that majority of people voting for Israel left had served in the army. They don't know that the best antidote from militarism is to have real enemies - you understand first-hand that army can only protect you to some degree, not solve any problems for you. They never saw Israel youth that can be called anything, but xenophobic. And difference between remembering Holocaust and being obsessed by it is something you can't explain to them.

And I see that our problems - are problems of real life.


1963 Ben-Gurion vs. Nasser

We did impossible task of rising a country from the ashes of thousand years long exile. We did it on barren land devoid of oil, surrounded by enemies, in spite of worst massacre in our history. And we didn't turned into fanatics. We didn't succumbed to socialist ideas. We didn't become a backward country struggling for survival.

We are here. Changing, growing, developing.

And of course we have a hell lot of problems. But it is an only way to have a future.

Comments

[arpad.livejournal.com]

My point is simple - Israel is not some doomed post-colonial experiment, Israel is not a sole obstacle to Mid-East peace, Israel is not a leech existing because it is protected by some power, Israel is not society filled by madness and hate.

Mind, I am not telling that we are all white and shining. I am telling that we are very different from US and from Europe, but we aren't alien. And we are sane on government level and on people level too.

Which sounds strange when you listen to the news. But after you delve a bit deeper into economical, political, historical facts it doesn't. That's my point.

[marimhe.livejournal.com]

Israel is not some doomed post-colonial experiment, Israel is not a sole obstacle to Mid-East peace, Israel is not a leech existing because it is protected by some power, Israel is not society filled by madness and hate.

Well, I never said that. And neither did Burg.

I am telling that we are very different from US and from Europe, but we aren't alien.

Yeah, you have this mysterious soul, like Russians do? How convenient!
Anyway, every country has its lot of sane and insane people in the government, and you certainly do too, but for some time now I'm not sure that the sanity prevails in yours. At least when it comes to the problem of the Mid-East peace. I'm sorry to say that, but it was an israeli who killed Yitzhak Rabin (I suppose you don't need me to remind you the reason), and 30% of Israeli want him to be pardoned.

I think you're mislead in your understanding of my opinion. The only thing that bothered me in your post was this clear overstatement regarding the "impossible task of rising a country from the ashes". However, I do know the efforts that were put in the rebirth of the region, and who applied those efforts, but those afforts alone coudn't and most certainly wouldn't have been sufficient without this enourmous gratuitous aid Israel received from all around the world.

And yes, I'm biased in my opinion of jewish people, but not in a way you think I am.

[arpad.livejournal.com]

We are different. Not in mysterious - in very practical way. For example, Zionism is very much alike to German or Italian national independence movements of 19 century. Only Zionism started later. Judaism is different from Christianity. Conflict with Arab nationalism is unique. Position of Israel during cold war can be compared only with few other countries. Supreme Court position in Israel political balance is original in its ability to challenge executive branch. Situation of liberal country forced to live in non-liberal environment is unique. Et cetera.

*

Rabin's killer now is getting his life-time sentence. And both - right government of Netanyahu and left of Baraq that come after Rabin's government worked peace process further. Then partner of Rabin decided that he is Saladin and Nelson Mandela together and started a war anew. Refusing the best deal on negotiations table Palestinians had ever got. So now we have some voices that call Rabin a traitor. The real question though - how much influence these voices actually have.

I don't know about famous 30% poll. But I do know how many Knesset seats got political parties that don't openly subscribe to push a peace process. About 20 seats from 120. With zero influence in government.

So I don't pay much attention to these numbers. I can't imagine European country that would have kept this level of sanity in that level of danger.

*

Israel is not alone. And I don't underestimate the importance of aid. What I claim, though is that the aid was never a decisive factor. The decisive factor were Jewish people who come here by their own choice to begin a new life. People that were able to turn this aid into something meaningful, people that produce a lot more than all the aid combined.

Look at the world. Look at Argentine that was a most promising country in beginning of the century - why its economy is in endless shambles? USA fought on South Vietnam side - why what worked in South Korea failed there so miserably? Look at lots of African coutnries getting huge credits (in comparison with their economic size from World Bank) - why the development failed there. Look at Singapore and Taiwan - countries that had nothing but human capital in the beginning.

It is people who crate the picture, people, not just money.

[marimhe.livejournal.com]

Zionism is very much alike to German or Italian national independence movements of 19 century. Only Zionism started later

So what?

Judaism is different from Christianity
So is buddhism, Islam, and many other religions. Again, so what? Your difference lies in the religion?

Conflict with Arab nationalism is unique
What do you mean? Because national conflicts always existed. In which way arab nationalism is different from those that experienced, say, Georgia, Yugoslavia and some other countries?

Position of Israel during cold war can be compared only with few other countries

How is that relevant?

Supreme Court position in Israel political balance is original in its ability to challenge executive branch.

or that, for that matter?

Situation of liberal country forced to live in non-liberal environment is unique

You mean, Lebanon ceased to be a liberal country? Since when?

Look at Argentine that was a most promising country in beginning of the century - why its economy is in endless shambles? USA fought on South Vietnam side - why what worked in South Korea failed there so miserably? Look at lots of African coutnries getting huge credits (in comparison with their economic size from World Bank) - why the development failed there. Look at Singapore and Taiwan - countries that had nothing but human capital in the beginning

You really want to go there? I wouldn't advise that. Seriously... Because in this discussion I'm a little bit more rational and I build my arguments on fact, not just patriotic feelings.

[arpad.livejournal.com]

From different input comes different output - that simple. That's why signs that would have been alarming in France or Britain can mean a different thing in Israel. Not because Israel is above law, because of different history.

You see - I do not consider myself a mindless patriot. I am living in Israel fifteen years and have my share of things I love and things I hate in this country. My share of hardships too. There are few things I am sure about. And one of them is that Burg is wrong.

Like that.

Well - I suppose we both have to do something useful now :) Was nice to talk with you.

Please not consider that as attempt to get a last word.